I think that would have probably hurt Kuroneko more than her dumping him, even if they have similar results. Even after she dumps him, she does not give up on Kyousuke until he tells her he can't have a relationship with her because he loves Kirino. Up to that point it was still a possiblity if they sorted out their feelings that Kyousuke would go back to Kirino. While it isn't the correct term for it, I feel like the concept is closest to the situation.
I'm not sure if there is an actual term for what happens in the story. While they are not in a romantic relationship, Kyousuke and Kirino are in an emotionally fragile and demanding relationship, due to reconnecting after their distant lives. Kuroneko is an observer to this as many others are, but she also is aware of Kirino's affection state for Kyousuke and isn't one to miss an opportunity to quip and tease Kirino about her brother complex. The point being that Kuroneko does have an idea and knows her relationship with Kyousuke is going to hurt Kirino.
Her struggles with doing what she wants versus doing what Kyousuke wants is one of the more interesting facets of her storyline. I just thought if Kuroneko was asking Kirino that kind of that, it must have been incredibly awkward with Kirino's emotional state. As for the OP, I imagined she was in the shower for long due to her nerves, not for any of the other things mentioned in this discussion.
Since -Niernen mentioned the scene, I feel like that anime scene where Kirino misheard and barged into Kyousuke and Kuroneko's time in his room, makes a lot more sense now why she interpreted that way. If Kuroneko was asking Kirino for love advice the way she did, I don't blame Kirino for thinking they were doing the hanky panky loli spanky. But like Kyousuke, it was her first relationship and probably the first time she has ever brought a boy to her house.
When things started getting awkward and she didn't know what to do, I think she tried to escape the situation to try and regroup or hope Kyousuke would fix the situation. But none of that happens and she end up in the shower for a long time, slowly increasing her fear of facing Kyousuke. But that is the Kuroneko we know, she tends to clam up an lose assertiveness when faced with difficult situations that involve things she is inexperienced in. That's quite a few good points you bring up. I wonder what she would have done after the kiss, because i'm guessing they would both be pretty embarrassed.
And she did mention they had an appointment or something planned for later, maybe dinner so she could show off her cooking skills? I think it would have been a great scene if her sisters had walked in while they were kissing. The scene in the bedroom, when they are playing games and Kirino mishears is also I wonder how she would have reacted if she had barged in and they were I know there is a doujin or few epicting that scene.
Of course that could never happen. It's a shame Kuroneko's sisters came in after she took a shower. It would have been very interesting to see what happens if they weren't. In Japanese culture, it's customary to shower directly before sex. So much so that if a girl asks you "should I take a shower? At the very least, she was preparing to do romantic things with him. Kiss, make out, that sort of thing. I actually found out this societal mannerism the hard way: I was with an exchange student during college, completely missed one of her signals, and accidentally shot her down. I'm not going to tell the whole story here, but it was preeety embarrassing.
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Spoilers Please be mindful of other readers and use spoiler tags when posting. Though this still broke my fucking heart. At least that dumbass verbally acknowledged that he was throwing away the best opportunities of his life. Multiple great women he was obviously into threw themselves at him, and he turned them all down to pursue a temporary romance with his sister - his only redeeming quality as far as I'm concerned is that he did actually have some idea of what a total colossal mistake he was making. He has a lot of reedeming qualities. I think he is indeed a very honest type of guy, likeable, and well just a good protagonist.
I do feel, as someone explained in this subreddit, that both brother and sister were tricked into believing they loved each other as lovers, rather than as just family, by Manami, when she tried to avoid her own confusion. Like, all the time they spended away and hating each other make them, when they got together, believe they loved each other.
Still, he was really ncie in helping everybody, and specially Kirino when she was been a bitch. The problem was between the 3 mains, Kirino Kyosuke and Manami who believed family love was incest. I don't disagree, but at the same time Kyousuke is responsible for his own actions, and they're the ones he'll have to live with for the rest of his life. That's something everyone needs to keep in mind when living their lives and what I took away as one of the big lessons from this show: It doesn't matter if other folks mislead you into thinking about something the wrong way - if you make the wrong choices, you have to live with them.
If you choose what you think is right, because someone told you it was, then you did choose wrong, but theres a lot mroe behind it. So when Manami told Kirino that her love was wrong and incest wasn't right, basicaly she turned her feelings into "true love" and she never let them go nd tried to prove her wrong, meanwhile with Kyosuke Manami told him that he didn't need to try hard.
It was pretty stupid that both changed for that reason. That's the only error I see they both made, after that one I don't see Kyosuke picking Kirino ofer the others as a mistake. And neither did he destroy the other relationships with him, so he could just go back to them as friends, and later on work one of them if any result to be the OTP.
Let me say this up front, I loved Oriemo - when Season 2 ended prior to the OVA's it was right up there as one of my favourite anime's. Everything that happened in Season 1 and in the lead up the end of Season 2 lead you to believe that Kyousuke and Kirino had an unnatural relationship, that her feelings for him were wrong and that she was acting in a way that was really not normal. In return, as she clutched onto him, he responded to her and began to feel unnatural things for his sister. But, the initial ending to Season 2 turned the whole thing on its head.
As it turned out, Kirino had been driven out of her brothers life by Manami - and that forcible removal had left scars and a fractured relationship. As the flashback episode late Season 2 showed, Kirino's personality had been misread from the start - she didn't hate Kyousuke, she idolised him. All her efforts were out of wanting to reconnect with her brother, she was uncomfortable at it, she couldn't express herself to him and it was all simply a misunderstanding.
She hadn't come to fall in love Kyousuke, she was simply over compensating. They reconnected, the misunderstanding was cleared, aided by Kuroneko, and it ended up being a nice story of siblings realising that they actually cared about each other. And then the OVA's happened, and my god did they screw that concept. Instead, Kirino and Kyousuke really are in love - and then we had this ridiculous ending where they proudly proclaim to everyone that they love each other, destroying all their respective friendships, only to have it last until graduation and then "break-up but may secretly stay together".
What an absolute crock. If they were going to break-up anyway - which they both knew - why make the big song and dance about it? Why destroy all your other relationships for something so short term? And what, did they think no one else would find out? That their friends would keep the secret and not tell everyone else they knew?
Not likely, everyone Kyousuke and Kirino ever knew would know about it, including the parents I'm sure, who I'm certain would separate them again at first chance. So what did it achieve? I know the ending was not played out how the author wanted it, but the ending we did get was so stupid that it doesn't even pass the sniff test. Either they love each other and they secretly want to be together, or they don't and they want to go on being normal.
What we got was a six of one, half a dozen of the other which made absolutely zero sense. For me, the show ended at the pre-OVA conclusion to Season 2, I refuse to acknowledge the OVA's in my cannon of the show because not only does it make it a little more palatable to my sensibilities, but also it just makes more sense and a better story. The main reason why I really didn't like the ending was that it came out of nowhere.
The entire series before the last arc to me at least was about how the two siblings were coming closer together after their 'cold war' and becoming closer as a family. And so I watched the first season taking it as an interesting representation of how the otaku culture is viewed despite ironically being an anime itself. It wasn't until the second season when I realised that it was turning into, in gigguk's words, "waifu the anime" when I decided to change my view and boarded the SS Kuroneko.
However the series really started to piss me off at about the Ayase arc, not because I had anything against Ayase, but because they were literally throwing girls at Kyousuke. She wants your dick now. Even Ayase, who had more screentime, only seemed to like Kyousuke because the plot demanded it. But never mind that. It could just end as all harems do, in that ever familiar 'nobody wins but everyone is happy' right? In short, if the last arc never happened, would we have ever known that Manami was a bitch? To me at least, the abrupt change in pace, coupled with the frustrating shoehorn of an ending was what really ruined an otherwise well above average anime for me.
Oreimo S2 probably would have been much better as a 2-cour season. Then you'd be able to fit in all the important character development scenes that got axed from the anime for whatever reason, and the ending would at least make a bit more sense without having to have read the novels. I loved the ending. Because I loved seeing people explode in the comments section. The final episode thread here was one of the longest threads I have ever seen in this sub. The author obviously wrote himself into a dead end, pretty much anything he had to say about Kirino was finished at around vol 5 which season 1 ended at.
Everything which happened after it was nothing but pandering to fans and an attempt to milk them, so I like to pretend that the second season never happened. The first season by itself was a very comprehensive and good end to the series. I see what you're saying but I did really enjoy the second season up until ep 13 or so. I felt like the author had very natural character dynamics and drives in place by the end of season 1, but then he realized, "Oh crap, if these characters continue to follow their hearts, this won't lead to the incest ending I want!
I'm generally fine with incest endings, but that second half just felt poorly written and desperate. This is the thing I felt, up until season 1, it was a nice family bonding story. Then it went down. I prefer to see the ending as the ironic fulfilment of Manami's evil plan to remove her competition for Kyousuke's feelings. After the flashback from episode 13 Manami turned out to be the secret antagonist for the whole series. She tried to demotivate Kyousuke and make him "normal" like her, and told Kirino that her childish, innocent love for her brother was shameful and wrong.
This led to the two siblings becoming estranged, but also led to her not growing out of it, and them falling in love for real. However, Kyousuke ended up alienating all of the other girls in his life, and torpedoing not only any possible romance between him and them, but also any chance of them being friends afterwards, which went way too far.
I felt especially bad for Best Girl Kuroneko. The ending was also a massive cop-out in that Kirino and Kyousuke only ended up in a fake relationship, which just makes the whole resolution seem like the author giving up and trolling the entire fanbase. I felt really bad for Kuroneko too: About Manami, I think you are right up until the point were you said that they falled in love for real. I do not think this happened, but that they confused their true feelings. They do loved each other since they were kids, and when Kirino just decided to separate ehrself from him, when they "met" again, they just confused how they felt.
But, something I have heard time and time again but never udnerstood why, why do people say Kyosuke alienated himself from all the girls and destroyed the relationships with them?
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He just said no to Ayase, because he loved someone else, same with Kanako. He didn't told them to go fuck themselves, I think Else he just said no. That doesn't mean he wouldn't you know Did they just not ended as friends? This is what I kind of got. I mean, they still go out with Kuroneko and that one other girl. It doesn't mean he doesn't talk to the others too. So did I miss something? A sweet and considerate girl who tearfully stepped aside to allow Kyousuke to follow his heart. She truly deserves the title of "My Lovely Angel Kuroneko". It's certainly ambiguous whether their love is for real or not, but after all they've been through, and after he rejects a bunch of other girls for her, including Best Girl Kuroneko.
I've heard that the ending of the light novels is less ambiguous on that point, but I've not got around to reading them yet, so I can't comment.
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I'm sure that when Ayase finds out, she'll probably invite them both to her nice boat. I've not mentioned Kuroneko yet in this paragraph, but she's great. Manami's reaction was actually pretty justified, but she did deserve to have Kyousuke stolen from her, so it all evens out. Hmmm, I do hate Kuroneko tho. I didn't like her at all, and I liked her less when she stepped out of the game.
Yes it was as you pointed good, but I think necessary.
The thing is, yes you could say that she was the "main girl" because she is in the title, but you could easily up until Kuroneko's arc ended, said that the story is about family bonding, and nothing would change actually. Up until that part, there were no true hints of incest love, this comes from someone who has 2 sisters and loves them.
This also comes from a Mexican, we have stronger family relationships than many more places of the world. So with that said nothing of what Kirino and Kyosuke did was actually bad or signaled incest Atleast in the anime so it could easily be a story of 2 brothers that got together again, and just be like that.
The incest is not clear until the very last arc, when he was telling all the girls no, and thats at the very ending of the last season, so for mroe than 1 and a half season the story didn't have any and I really mean any signal that it was going to end the way it did Because it was bullshit. One that didn't include incest. Since Kuronkeo did burn her own ship. She didn't have to. Putting aside the other parts of your comment that I don't want to acknowledge, I agree.
Having him end up alone was a cop out. For most of the series, I'd have accepted virtually any girl, with the exception of Manami once the extent of her evil plan was revealed. The idol girl wouldn't be high up my list either, because he never really had all that much interaction with her, compared to the others.
I don't have anything against her as a character, I might have a different opinion if she had been given more screen-time. I like Saori as a character for getting through the entire show without falling in love with Kyousuke. But having him essentially chose Kirino, but only "for faksies" was a massive let down. Ayase had the best development tho. Was it how much a whole month?
Oreimo. Why the ending was ovahiryripen.tk? | Tsukaremashita
Not only all the times he helped her, but also it was clear that in order to protect his sister he indeed played the role of stalker and pervert with Ayase, so much that she infact believed that he was in love with her. Same with Kanako they don't show their interactions, just state that they exist. SO by the time they got that whole month almost living together, she realized that Kyosuke was indeed a good brother and a honest human being as she saw in the first place.
She basicaly understood all of his motives and bammmm, she finded herself wanting to be the one he loved. The only one with that much interaction is Kuroneko, because I don't know. She is cute, and also a good match. If it wasn't because she aswell as Manami screwed herself, she would be my main. But I like Yanderes tho, and Magical girls. A meganekko with big boobs should have won, and not the bitchy little sister. They failed to illustrate Manami's nature properly in the anime, but in the light novels, you can clearly see that Manami was the bitch behind everything.
I really need to the the light novels. I only watchted the anime and you I felt like Manami is a real bitch. That was the only girl that I though just played along with the others who really liked him. And well, Kanako is an acceptable option for me. She in comparison to the "bitchy little sister" was like a devil to an angel. The sister was a bit rude and selfish but she never had long term plans trying to deny her brother anyone else except herself. I was really hoping near the end someone would say "you're in love with your sister, you're fucking gross.
Then he could explain that he just didn't feel right dating all of the other girls because he wasn't into them. You must be ashamed of yourself. You should have said "Pluto the dog". Such a good punchline. She basically just said that they are fucking disgusting, and challenged them on their dedication to each other. The biggest problem I had was that they treated her ideals of "incest is fucked up" as if she was wrong and close minded. Pretty much everyone at the end knows that Kyousuke and Kirino are dating and seem fine with it.
Well, to be fair, isn't one of the things people try to do in stories is challenge common opinions in the first place? I mean, I'm not all like 'incest is cool! Then that ending came and I just facepalmed at how fucking retarded that cop-out was. They just said, alright, now they'll just NOT be dating, k lol. Yeah, but Manami is the true villain of the series, so who cares what she said.
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Though pretty much everyone else disagreed with his decision, so it's not like they didn't know. This holds true for any value of "incest" you plug into the equation. If it is so vague I need reddit to explain it to me it wasn't good. That's how I feel.
Going off of what you've said, not only was the incest angle disgusting, it never really felt like Kyousuke and Kirino had any chemistry. They seemed to just barely tolerate each other throughout most of the second season and then all of a sudden in the last episode, they're getting incest married. Somewhere, somebody posted a picture giving a more indepth explanation as to why Kirino was in love with Kyousuke and why Manami is a conniving bitch and I hate her , which was more thoroughly explained in the LNs but not the anime.
Oreimo. Why the ending was actually..good?
At least, that's what I think the poster said about it. I was completely ready to ship Manami x Kyousuke until It showed the clip of her being a colossal bitch to Kirino when she was a little girl. Hated her ever since then. I hated the fact that Kyosuke was left out alone in the end. I'm not one for incest and I'm very sad thats the route they went, but it would have been better if they went all out on the incest, just not going halfway.
But muc better would have him to choose one of the many girls he could have gotten. Expanding any of those relationships to something better, and then letting them be together till the end of the days. Honestly I feel the story could have been about family love and that it's ok to love each other, and be close, and help everyone, and that it doesn't mean you are been incestuous.
I really believed it, and that they wouldn't end together, but then, the incest happened. And I was surprised to discover that I was indeed watching an story about incest. Just that, the ending would have been better if the MC would end with one of the girls there was. Kirino, Ayase, Kanano or even Manai were good choices. And no, Kuroneko screwed everything, she sinked her own ship, and I never liked her so no, she wouldn't be a good choice. A pretty blatant show of the fact that they didn't want to have it as a total incest ending.
Probably wasn't approved by his superiors, or something.